The Troonshine Incident: Takeaways from the final days of the Kiwi Farms

(Note: Originally I wrote this post on 9/5/22, however as stuff has happened today on the 6th there's a lot I've added. I also find it fitting to elaborate on how certain groups operate).

In the last month, the sphere outside the mainstream internet has been dominated with discussion of a war between one of the most notorious message boards dedicated to making fun of people online, and a bunch of well connected eunuchs who happen to have ties to literally everyone seemingly. On one hand it took the ADL, GLAAD, an ex-Google employee, tons and tons of journalists writing copypaste garbage articles, and some illegal tactics like fake bomb threats and SWATting a dumb congresswoman who can’t use her brain cells to take this notorious message board down. On the other hand the site had an incredibly high heat level that I’ve never seen sustained to that extent in all my time online.

Kiwi Farms for now is essentially dead in the water, probably moreso because the owner Josh is clearly getting too blackpilled to keep it up. The site is right now up (thanks to the same people who help host 8kun currently) but it is barely working, and only over IPv6 at that. It's being DDoSed hard and bruteforced as the external captcha no longer works. He doesn’t have many friends (especially not in institutions), he has tons of enemies, and not all of them were from the site itself even. Maybe it’ll be back up after a while and it wouldn’t shock me considering how in early 2017 the site went down for a few months thanks to a user harassing Joshes family, but many web administrators would have backed out by now.

Keffals and the Troon Squad: No Bad Tactics or targets

The faction that has been scoring the most wins in this battle are Keffals and his troon buddies. Actually not all of them are even his friends normally, they're just wanting this darn website to go off the internet. But they're well connected and have managed to bring a website that was notoriously hard to take down to it's knees. Yet their secrets are also not so secret after all, if you know anything about how these people work. Which is why I'm going to talk about this first.

Their motives and background

Let’s talk about Keffals and the Troon Squad, and why they’re after the site. Aside from having threads there, Keffals is an e-celeb whose accomplishments are peddling bathtub-produced estrogen (or Troonshine as a YouTuber talking about the saga called it) to kids, getting people banned from Twitter, and “ratioing” people (getting more comments/replies to assure social media number superiority). After being groomed and deciding he was transgender at the age of 12, he then became a she and got a sex change around 18. He's openly admitted to helping minors obtain HRT, but wants the site with his own quotes down. This should tell you everything about how he is a cluster B narcissist who is obsessed with what people think of him.

The Troon Squad is a nickname I'm giving to a bunch of men in dresses who only share a few things in common; most of them are men who wear dresses, identify as women, take cross-sex hormones, and sometimes even have their penis surgically turned into a "vagina" (in reality an open wound that has to be dilated but don't take my word for it, there's a reason the dilation meme exists). Some of them are the opposite, being women who decide they're men. Some of them aren't even transgender, and while most of them are left-wing a few of their supporters are not. They all share one thing in common: an urge to delete the Kiwi Farms from the internet and any idea that it ever existed. Never before has such a censorship campaign been waged online to my knowledge from multiple people.

 Their motivation for taking down Kiwi Farms is simple; it contains compromising information on them or even just people laughing at them. All of it is in a thread format, with posts daily (for active lolcows) and the spiciest stuff in the OP. Critics of the site talk about how it harasses trans people (false), how it doxes them (true, but everyone is doxed), has caused some of the worst mass shootings ever (the only one who did killed 2 before being cucked by a couch and was laughed at when he was dead), and when in doubt just make things up about the site. But all of these are really excuses, especially when they let the mask off.

One of their actions in particular revealed to the world the true nature of trying to remove the farms from the internet. It wasn't because it was "harassing trans people" and "making them kill themselves" with troon suicide lasers, but rather hosting compromising information. What they did was beg to take down the farms, who complied. Kiwi Farms is now unavailable on It's probably not actually deleted, because I can name two instances in which sites were reinstated and one with hard evidence; Now was a domain owned by DEC (a computer company) only to get sold and then one of the owners decided to robots.txt so it was no longer viewable. Until a blogger made a post on it and it was reinstated not long afterwards.

Leftists usually have a fetish for archiving everything themselves, especially when it comes to leaking Discord chat logs or dead forums such as Iron March. These actions have done what Kiwi Farms users are accused of doing; getting people fired and ruining their lives. But with Kiwi Farms this was different. Maybe many of the users actually weren't half-bad at opsec. Maybe these leftists were trying to speedrun taking the site down. Maybe they lost their edge. But the Kiwi Farms was something different: it was documentation of everybody's secrets seemingly, so it had to go.

But the point here remains. The actual motive of taking down Kiwi Farms isn't about SWATting. It's not about harassment. It's not about "justice" for somebody. It's only partially about dox. It's about taking down the mean words from the internet for good. They believe the source of all ills in life is mean words on the internet, and not their own behavior. To be a troon you can't have any self agency whatsoever and feel everything is never your fault. A lot of other beliefs and rules in the transgender community such as being "born again", nobody online being allowed to use their real name and pronouns, and letting people destroy themselves can only exist in a vacuum where rules are enforced at gunpoint.

How the current saga began is interesting. After someone swatted Keffals, he instantly blamed the Kiwi Farms and issued a fatwa on them. This wasn't even the first fatwa issued against the site, as a fake suicide and failed humans blaming the site for their problems also functioned as such. But Keffals was different than many of these people, as Keffals was a Twitter e-celeb with an absolute obsession with destroying people. No really. Keffals bragged for a while about ratioing people and making people lose their accounts/websites/sources of income, all while thinking it's funny.

Connections were important

Keffals has been very effective with ruining the operation of the farms and there’s a lot of ways he did it. The most important thing Keffals had however is connections. If Keffals will never be a woman, than Josh will never have connections. One thing the transgender community is notorious for is everyone having connections to each other. You can pick any two random people with ties to the community and they won’t have many degrees of separation, maybe one or two at most. Case in point, one of his partners in this endeavor was Liz Fong-Jones, who literally knows everyone. No really. In 2017 Liz sent harassing emails to Kiwi Farms with a address on behalf of two others who had a thread there after visiting Joshes house IRL didn’t persuade him. In 2019, a trashy blogger banned from Twitter talked about how Liz not only had tons of Twitter employee connections, but even had connections to an “anti-racist” activist who was able to dox and ruin lives of people because they went to the wrong protest and was followed by Jack Dorsey himself.

So when the troon squad ran hit pieces on Kiwi Farms, it was an all-star lineup. There were news bloggers, NBC News, USA Today, the ADL, GLAAD, and tons of Twitter accounts out there to condemn Kiwi Farms. It’s all one sided, because you know that Josh will never go on Tucker Carlson like the LibsOfTikTok woman or even Curtis Yarvin did.

As all of this snowballed, thanks to the sheer amount of enemies Josh racked up more and more came out of the woodwork to shit on his site and want it gone. Keffals even found unlikely allies in right-wing e-celebs mocked by the farms who also wanted their detractors gone.

Just how far were they going to go? Put it this way, people on Twitter straight up said that they didn’t give two shits that Keffals was a groomer, as long as Kiwi Farms was going to go down for good.

Keeping the grift going

Keffals hasn’t been so good at opsec. Instead of showing herself behind a green screen like many scambaiters for example do, he would film himself in his hotel rooms and friends apartment and cry when he was doxed. But this is part of his plan to frame the darn doxers at Kiwi Farms as worth taking out and it worked. He would also obsessively refresh his website over and over again and air out people talking shit to Twitter for more retweets to keep it going. In fact he even recently said that he was going to buy an IRL streaming setup, which as Ice Poseidon demonstrated is a bad idea if you’re targeted.

Eventually it’ll run out of steam, but this is a tactic I saw during other similar high-profile online battles of this nature. The left wing side will do stupid shit and cry victim, taking advantage of the behavior of their adversaries and destroying more people in the process. Case in point, when a furry celeb got a convention shutdown in 2017, she managed to convince the world that troll art made of her and furries holding airsoft guns at a printout of her was literal harassment while using said airsoft gun photo as her Twitter banner as a sort of trophy.

Any tactic was fair game

Once upon a time a left wing supporter on Twitter said a famous line: There are no bad tactics, only targets. While at the time people laughed at him and thought he was a crazy schizophrenic, he was simply saying the quiet part out loud. Far-left wing activists really see no bad tactics. AgainstHateSubreddits in particular was notorious for posting CP (which is literally illegal) to subreddits and then flagging them down, and other subreddits that are targeted such as BanPitBulls are targeted often as well by activists who do outright illegal things to get people banned.

The same thing happened with Kiwi Farms:

It didn’t help that there were some spastic attention whores like one who wrote stuff on a piece of paper and held it outside the flat where Keffals was staying in Northern Ireland for clout presumably.

The one tactic not used to take down Kiwi Farms was the traditional lawsuit tactic. The old corporate left/DNC billionaires love to sue the shit out of anyone who they can get away with. Case in point, just look at the Alex Jones Sandy Hook lawsuit or the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuits. The former lawsuit was over Alex Jones saying that a school shooting was fake (this was fueled by the town stonewalling proof it was real) and the latter being over accusing Dominion of rigging the election. I mean their website is wrapped around in more propaganda and record correcting than the BP website after that oil spill was. These pesky lawsuits can drag out for years and years meaning Kiwi Farms won’t go down now, it has to go down right this instant.

The same thing could apply to many younger left tactics, if the older left preferred normalizing their pet causes the younger one prefers to speedrun the process.

The Kiwi Farms: Mistakes were made

On the other end of the spectrum, is Kiwi Farms, a notorious drama discussion website that has made enemies in every single corner of the internet. Originally the website started as a website for forum for discussing Chris Chan, one of the longest running "lolcows" (or crazy people on the internet) online. Eventually ownership was passed down to Josh, who had a long internet history but also at one time was 8chan staff and responsible for the infamous Infinity Next project that never actually came out. Over time the farms exploded, thanks in part to Joshes SEO and discussion of "banned" topics in other parts of the internet.

Josh and the Kiwi Farms made numerous mistakes handling the situation, but at the same time he's also been under intense pressure that have amplified them. I’m talking about these mistakes because I want anyone in the sphere of running a “dissident” website or even a shitposting website to take notes from these mistakes. I remember when nobody took notes from The Daily Stormer or 8chan’s issues back in the day or even Gab and Parler, only to make the same exact mistakes those sites did. So let’s talk about the things that did the farms in.

A look at Josh and the site

First of all, Josh or Null has a very firm stance on how he handles things on his website: he was one of the few web administrators to barely delete threads or posts no matter the topic. To him, Kiwi Farms was basically worth dying over even if it wasn’t for much of the world. For the first few years of the site, Josh would post e-mails of everyone from governments to angry users wanting content taken off of the site. This was complicated by the fact that the site was hosting names and addresses of literally anyone, along with personal information. Pretty much all of this was gathered through the oversharing people do. While the dox is a bad thing, considering how nobody is talking about doxbin the hosting of dox on Kiwi Farms seems to be a tool in the toolbox to shut the site down.

The thing with Josh is it’s hard to be in his spot with people yelling at him to delete something and not compromise. It’s even harder to be in his spot and not have people spreading stories about him. Some of them are from the 8chan or Blockland days, some of them are just rumors or fanfiction, and others are based on some of the bad choices he’s made. One of the most notorious ones was how he handled the user information leak of 2019 by posting it on his site as a dare from a user, which led to a lot of users either remaking their accounts or leaving the website for good.

Another thing the site became known for was documenting current events as they unfolded. After hosting the notorious video of the New Zealand shooting in 2019 when it seemed like it was going to be wiped from the internet as a defiant protest, the website attracted a lot of new users who only wanted to talk about this and politics.

But when it came to internet drama, Kiwi Farms boomed as it was one of the few monolithic websites out there that allowed discussion on topics censored by other sites, and it was arguably the highest profile one for a while. Because of its high profile, those who did not wish to be discussed on sites outside of their control were angry and wanted it gone. Ironically even those who did would use the site to find information on enemies or info on current events being suppressed. If the idea of site users harassing people because of threads was a myth, what isn’t a myth were people off-site using the site as ammunition.

All of this was despite the site’s “In your face” reputation, where even its own users were not free from being mocked and doxed. It wasn’t too hard to earn a “halal” thread, a thread mocking users who had or have accounts there and were discovered via their postings. Arguably the halal policy helped scare at least a few users from joining the site as it also gained a reputation of “you can get doxed posting here”. But the lurker amount was huge as people wanted to see what was going to happen next.

But on the other hand, Josh has had a mixed reputation among his site’s userbase. To others he’s known for being ban happy, having meltdowns in chat boxes, and constantly begging for money and crying about his life. The last part is very important because the troon squad has seized this as a sign of massive weakness. Instead of pretending to be a powerful website admin where everything is fine, the façade is gone. Instead he’s projecting his weakness and the troons are using this to go harder on him. Arguably this is also because of the extreme attempts to take the site down. He had the previously mentioned people visit him IRL, he’s had banking taken away, and he’s had numerous hosts drop him, among other things. He’s also lonely, and he’s done desperate things to try to get women to the point of posting an infamous post on his website looking for a tradwife and about why women need to reproduce.

The most important thing to note about Josh is he has tons of enemies. I’m talking enemies from the Blockland days, 8chan days, and KF days (within and outside of KF). There are a lot of people who want to see him knocked down a peg or two, if not seeing his life ruined. In fact, there were two sites consisting of ex-farmers who would shit talk Josh: (down) and onionfarms. He does not have many online connections which could help his site and as for positive PR, he only has a few streamers in that sphere like Rekieta Law who would take him on for an interview. He’s not going around on Tucker Carlson or right wing bloggers getting interviewed.

Another factor harming the site’s ability to gain allies is as the site aged, doxing became seen as worse and worse online, as for a while nothing except maybe pizza orders or prank calls would happen from being doxed. However over time the consequences of being doxed got far worse. After the Charlottesville protest in 2017 and the infamous January 6th capitol protest in 2021, those who went to the protest had their lives ruined at best and wound up in a DC jail cell with poor conditions and guards who wanted them dead or tortured (with their brainwashed kids turning them in) while laughing the whole time like the guys in Iraq who took the bag head photo. I remember after January 6th news sites were asking the public to help dox people involved in the protest and a kid was even getting donations after ratting out his dad. Let’s not forget how getting swatted seems to happen more and more. So to some people, Kiwi Farms was seen as a website to launder dox.

This all leads to the giant elephant in the room, that even if the farms were not directly responsible for so and so happening, the site was used by third parties to get intelligence on people they wanted to destroy. That’s not counting all the people who would repeat stuff mentioned or even implied by threads to thread subjects who would handle this poorly.

Too high profile for its own good

Hands down the biggest problem facing the website is the fact that Kiwi Farms got way too high profile for their own good. The most recent thing to finally take the site down for good has been the use of previously inactive accounts to post vague threats, or “fedpost”. Accounts that had not been used in years or only had posts in the Keffals threads were reactivated to post vague threats. Now whether if these were federal agents/saboteurs doing this, edgelords, or troon squad members is up for debate. But the fact of the matter is, they got results and did this multiple times. Then just a few minutes afterwards they were made, Keffals and pals would be posting these posts to Twitter.

Despite the fact that it took less time for these posts to be deleted than the NZ shooting video on Facebook, Kiwi Farms got punished for it. Much of this is because the heat level was so high, the troon squad and pals were F5ing the site for anything to use to take them down.

But this problem was systematic and years in the making. Kiwi Farms was notorious for grabbing your attention harder than a shock jock’s viral prank call on YouTube would. This was done through several tactics. One such tactic was by boosting the site on Google search results with strong SEO methods and for the longest time, it was not uncommon for Kiwi Farms pages to overtake the thread subject’s own media pages. A friend I know literally described Joshes SEO ability as “scary” since it wouldn’t take long before a thread made on some nobody overtook their own results on Google. Eventually as the site’s SEO crumbled despite trying to hide dox to non-logged in users (a barely enforced rule) and making the news subforum private (as copypasting articles was seen as bad SEO), Josh removed the word filters that were formerly in place for SEO reasons. Kiwi Farms in its later years would also become known for discussing topics and drama banned on other sites.

As a result, while Kiwi Farms hasn’t been linked to any suicide that was confirmed to have taken place, Kiwi Farms has been linked to thread subjects either choosing to live out low profiles online as a result of discussion there, or thread subjects going ballistic and signing up to the website to fight the trolls. Having a thread on the farms basically became acknowledgement that people are either trying to fuck with you or laugh at you as the site’s reputation grew, and people placing Google Alerts on their own names fueled this.

Other users of the website would bait thread subjects as they found their thread and post edgy posts calling them out in an effort to get them to respond, or even threatened them to go make an account there instead of hiding in Twitter.

This was amplified every time Kiwi Farms would take on a high profile topic that nobody else discussed as new users would rush in. The Zoosadist scandal was one such incident, as forum users dug up info on their behavior and who was doing what and new users came in to try to farm clout or post bad information. One memorable example of low quality posting from new users during this time was when the wrong person was doxed as a zoophile, after he signed up and confirmed this. Other examples include when the site broke the Shmorky scandal or the GlitchedPuppet chat logs, or covered mass shootings during media blackouts.

Another notorious incident that led to the farms gaining a lot of low-quality posters was when the farms hosted the NZ Shooting livestream video. Users signed up only to discuss politics and nothing else on the site, leading to the division between the users wanting to talk about crazy autistic men and fat women online and the “politispergs”, users who wanted to talk about only /pol/ level politics.

The end result is that the farms were so notorious, that mentioning the name in certain circles would always start a flamewar. This was fueled by some of the thread subjects like GlitchedPuppet claiming the site ruined their life as their careers went down in flames. Mentioning the farms in a sentence about free speech would also help weed out those who couldn’t care less if the internet burns as long as nobody can make fun of their fetish.

The staff took little effort to lower the site’s heat level

In similar situations many websites with high heat levels would take action to let the tourists and journalists go away. Here’s one example; after the infamous 2017 Charlottesville protest that in part led to the censoring of The Daily Stormer, some websites began to lose hosting and registrars that they had for years and years. As a result many websites such as MyPostingCareer (which was a well known forum of the dissident right sphere and spawned a few greentexts and slang that were stolen verbatim by others, such as the word bugman or the John Oliver brainwashing greentext) were put on full lockdown post-Cville as a survival measure. Others limited registrations.

This isn’t something that only fringe dissident sites do to post or view however. SomethingAwful is notorious for the $10 fee, ResetEra needs accounts to be approved and using paid email services only (NeoGAF used to), and private trackers are invite only most of the time. In fact Kiwi Farms earlier this year became invite-only on and off.

What did however keep heat levels high was when the userbase of the site began to provoke Keffals and pals. As I mentioned earlier, Keffals is a notorious narcissist who obsesses over what people think of her and the same goes with her pals. The users reacted by provoking Keffals with bait posts about leaving the web forever with words spelt out with the first letters of paragraphs along with tons of YWNBAW copypasta posts.

When heat levels on a website are as high as they are now with Kiwi Farms (such as with The Daily Stormer in 2017 and 8chan in 2019), any new host who claims “we can take you on” is going to be harassed. Even if Josh actually takes a website break for a few weeks, he might be able to come back on some new domain with less pressure as the usual suspects might have moved on. Everyone in the troon squad has bad ADHD anyhow.

Bad Infrastructure

While Josh was smart and had an ASN number, he did make a lot of mistakes when hosting his site:

Despite all of this, there is one thing that would save the site and that is if someone actually can put their money where their mouth is and host the farms to make a point about censorship. Or maybe that won’t happen since Josh is paranoid of being lied to so many times by people who think they can host the farms. The free speech absolutists of the late 00s and early 2010s are dead, replaced with the troons who want to control all speech online and ensure no places online are not colonized with talk of estrogen.

Chances are his situation was not helped by the fact that his reputation made it harder to get services or support presumably. But he also said in a stream he had poor social skills which likely didn’t help.

Lessons that can be learned from this

So why am I talking about this? Because quite frankly there are a lot of lessons one can learn from Kiwi Farms being censored off the internet. Even if the site isn’t completely gone, there is so much disinformation being spread day by day on the status of the site. The troon squad is hoping the site is completely gone and is spreading misinfo or jumping the gun on a lot of things either way. It’s down for me on tor right now and I’ve heard people saying their ASN number was revoked, which would be a serious blow to freedom of speech online if true.

The first thing that is the most important one of it all is that a website with user generated content should never try to be too notorious for its own sake, or too high profile. Poast for example has been relatively low profile except among the most obsessed of the obsessed with stalking certain right wing e-celebs. The fact it’s blocked from many left-wing fediverse instances mean many don’t know it exists, along with the fact it didn’t have marketing blitzes like Parler or Gab did. Yet Poast also has tons of activity baked into it aside from on-site activity thanks to fedi instances. Poast grew organically from word of mouth instead of trying to game Google. Now of course Poast is going to boom heavily and more leftists know it exists, thanks to a famous e-celeb joining the site after his Twitter ban.

Of course a website hosting the kind of content Kiwi Farms did was bound to piss off people. But as the overton window shifts, it’s going to get to the point where any website will draw the kind of person who Kiwi Farms had trying to destroy it a lot easier. Which is why it’s important to understand the kind of people pulling the strings to shut the site down.

They weren’t government officials. They were men in dresses with an autistic fixation on this. They were 100% convinced that the site was responsible for all their ills in life, or wanted to destroy it for making fun of them. They had allies in the sense that there are tons of people who didn’t give two shits about the future of censorship online, as long as the site that made fun of them was gone. I’m sure the government officials used the farms as a source of intel, I know the same leftists and “anti-racists” complaining about the farms did too. These are the people who sent his setup crashing into the ground.

Then there’s Josh himself. While Josh was good at not compromising, he was bad at showing weaknesses and anger outbursts. This is leading to his current breakdown, where he’s groveling and asking what he needs to do to let it stop. He locked the e-celeb threads in an attempt to stop this from continuing and the site’s userbase is thoroughly blackpilled, while the leftists are seeing his breakdowns and cheering, wanting to push harder until he closes the site (which won’t be enough). A guy I know straight up said that Josh doesn’t know how to do crisis management whatsoever as his emotional outbursts provided a giant weakness which Keffals and the like used to latch onto people.

Also Kiwi Farms didn’t have as many fallback options in place, and these could have been worsened due to Joshes financial situation, his social skills, and businesses unwilling to work with him over his reputation or personality. A controversial website needs to have backup plans in place and most importantly supporters/institutions willing to take on the role of hosting the site. Josh not having many friends really bit him in the ass this time. Compare that to say someone like Julian Assange whose future is still eternally in limbo but he has many organizations and lawyers willing to bat for him and make sure his plight is known. This is why it’s important that to withstand these people, one must have friends and connections! Keffals and the troon squad have on their side the whole collectivist aspect of troons, where troons who don’t even know you but have a bunch of followers on Twitter will go support your cause. Josh on the other hand has to deal with people shitting on him everywhere he goes because quite frankly, people on both sides hate his site (amplified by the doxing aspect). I've also heard stories that Josh isn't the best with tech, both with stories from his detractors but even him admitting that a few years ago he didn't know shit about it.

Where can we go from here?

This all comes at a backdrop of internet censorship increasing. It’s hard to be a new Moot or Tom Fulp these days, but it’s easy to hear about online censorship. It’s easy to hear about how hard it is to start a new high-profile “free speech” site without fedposters and pedophiles coming to your door, while Facebook is never held accountable for having CP on their servers. Oh sure an article might say Bing shows people CP easily but they just wait it out and nobody thinks of it again. But if a free speech site has some guy flooding the site with it even if moderators remove it, it’s over. You never hear any guys starting their own site and becoming big but you can easily hear about some megacorp starting one. Did I mention 4chan is completely and utterly defanged these days? Or that former “free speech” site Reddit is now one of the most censored and algorithm biased sites online? In fact 4chan being totally and utterly cucked these days is why so many people think free speech online is dead, because as Josh found out the hard way it's pretty hard to host a "free speech" imageboard with few rules since you'll get CP spammers and fedposters fast.

But the most important thing that did the site in IMO was the amount of enemies it had, which contributed to its heat level. Remember; Kiwi Farms was making fun of lots of people who other weird people saw in them. They didn’t see these people as who not to be, but rather they saw themselves in them and assumed they’d be next. This was fueled by the urban legends about the site, which became fact in the eyes of many. But there were also people with giant skeletons in their closet suppressed by the media, as victims and those breaking the story went to Kiwi Farms to tell the world about this.

Sure, the site had plenty of issues for sure. There were serious flaws with the userbase, such as the culture of the site that encouraged in your face aggression. There was the same sort of pretending-to-be-normie purity spiraling you see in fringe communities, especially with Josh and his rants about anime avatars. There was the fixation on doxing when it was unnecessary to tell the tale of a crazy dude online, and being doxed snuffed many paranoid lolcows out (especially if they lived with family). At least you can explain the purity spiraling as a necessary evil to keep the website from turning into an erowid trip report discussion forum for estrogen.

But the enemies saw it differently, as an autism illuminati dedicated to hunting down and killing every troon on earth with suicide thought mind control lasers. Sure there’s crazy Twitter addicts calling websites “nazi” sites, but Kiwi Farms was beyond a hate site. Literally posting on a shitposting forum meant you had the blood of trans kids on Tumblr on your hands.

Right now Josh is taking a few steps to lower the heat level, but they are too little, too late. He's locked discussion of the Keffals thread and some of the troon squad e-celeb threads, along with the thread on dropping the site and the thread that discusses locking them. He straight up told his userbase to go outside and stop using Twitter all day long and that the world is not Twitter. He's trying to get the heat off of the site when the troons are celebrating their small victories of keeping the site down for a few hours and making it barely usable, after both Twitter e-celebs and Kiwi Farms fed attention whores online.

But remember the thing that just happened with Josh is dangling his Samson Option to the world and telling people that if push comes to shove, if he can no longer keep the site up, he will release all 7tb of the site's data for anyone else to do what they want with, including anyone who wants to try their own hand at hosting the farms (since he already inherited the site once). I actually hope he does it instead of getting Minecrafted or something before he can. Sure the reuploads might get nuked from IA becuase the troons are inside IA as well (I know for a fact), but it would be a final fuck you to the troons.

Joshes samson option

So where do I see the internet going from here? The first thing is federated websites are going to take off more. is a success story, drama aside. Poast has managed to singlehandedly bring the fediverse to the mainstream dissident right and adjacent circles and as Twitter hands out bans for criticizing Troon Queen Keffals, big names in that sphere are signing up for Poast. When Jim/Mister Metokur joined Poast, the site’s userbase boomed hard. Unlike Kiwi Farms, Poast also explicitly bans doxing and arguably this is a good idea not solely to keep the heat level lower, but also to keep users on the site. A federated network is a lot more censorship resistant than a monolithic website is, and being knocked offline and having outages just meant that the users regrouped and signed up on a different instance and were back in business.

On the other hand, with Graf being a Canadian I do worry about the future of Poast with Canada being a literal WEF member state in the process of turning into North America’s gun-free zone. It might have a BitChute moment where they have to censor to stay afloat as they fall into obscurity. But it’s federated, so Poast users can join another instance too.

The second thing is gossip sites and more fringe discussion will go underground again, onto self-run sites that aren’t all over Google to the extent Kiwi Farms was. Hell, some might unlist themselves and only spread via word of mouth to avoid the thread subjects finding the site. Remember, the big problem with the farms is that people blamed it on their life problems. Thanks to the Proving Grounds fiasco, Kiwi Farms was already having less lolcow discussion with the idea of “pet chat retards” on chat groups booming instead.

CloudFlare is basically dead in the water to any dissident website host; I hope Matthew Prince got compensated very well with a $100 Applebee’s giftcard, a gallon of troonshine, and an Oculus Quest 2 for erping with proud transgender furries. Maybe if he gets a new name and pronouns they’ll be friends with him too because right now even they still want CloudFlare to go fuck itself.

Just like when Kiwi Farms was still running, everyone should practice opsec and use VPNs when posting on internet communities. Josh’s tidbit about opsec was right at least, you should imagine your real name and face next to every post you make and imagine how your employer/family would see it if it was ever leaked. Even when my opsec was sloppy, this has really saved me because I’m not spilling my spaghetti on forums thinking it’ll never come back to me ever.

I think it should also be remembered that despite all the demoralization about knocking Kiwi Farms offline, it takes years and years to get as hated as Kiwi Farms is, with as few supporters in powerful positions as that site had. At the end most of the people who wanted Kiwi Farms to stay up did for one reason; they were worried at the precedents censoring it would set for the internet, which I can agree with. That’s it. Kiwi Farms had so many enemies that for the most part, nobody is going to easily stick their head out and say “hey I should totally host this controversial site” like what happened with the Daily Stormer.

Which leads me to my final point; any website that is controversial to the extent the farms was has to have supporters and allies somewhere. When the Daily Stormer got screwed hosting wise, people stepped in to help host it because they wanted promotion for their services with the “free speech” angle. The Stormer also has a far smaller enemy list, the SPLC and ADL and a few journalists aren’t even as powerful as a bunch of random people on the internet with weaponized autism.

The Kiwi Farms on the other hand was too toxic for anyone to even think about touching, which meant that once a Twitter attention whore took it down, why would anyone want to touch it? I think most sites have to try to be like that in my opinion. Yet there’s also going to be a void where Kiwi Farms was online, a forum for shitposters and dissidents that features little in the way of rules. I say little because you could get banned from KF for pissing off the admins, but you could talk about something like the Yaniv saga there or Keffals. The fedi is only going to go so far to fill that role, but it’s probably going to end up replacing Twitter and other social media sites in that regard.

All in all, I’m nervously watching the future of the internet. The whole reason I made this post is I don’t want people making a similar site or any website remotely considered dissident to fall into the same traps Kiwi Farms did. As bad as what happened to Kiwi Farms is, it would be foolish to not look at Kiwi Farms and realize that Josh and others behind the side made some absolutely dumb mistakes. There’s a lot of deep lore I can’t exactly think of at the moment on both sides.

But honestly? I’m giving less of a shit about Kiwi Farms being down than I am about the fediverse booming from Jim joining. That’s just the truth.

Here’s a random unrelated story. I was at a nearly abandoned mall the other week. The parking lot was a mess, with crumbling concrete, foliage growing between the concrete, perennials and reseeded plants growing in an absence of any human doing much in the way of landscaping, but notably there was a concrete and mulch tree island with two dead Ash trees. Both trees had been appeared to be killed by the emerald ash borer complete with the telltale trails and yet in the remnants of this decaying ash tree were new shoots of life in a bush like formation, with the distinct Ash tree leaf pattern.

As long as there are people giving a shit about the internet it won’t die, like the ash trees still held onto life. Josh might have been buck broken into submission with a powerful enemy and fucked over by his choices, but as long as someone cares the internet will not die. It’s just those who are keeping it going have to be very careful about who they let post for a reason.

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